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today my guest is sean anthony he's aware of many hats including author
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podcaster family man volunteer and storyteller and today we thought we would just have a really real chat about
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our own struggles as caregivers and in our businesses as we're trying to
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help other caregivers and seniors have a listen
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with that i think you should get into it that's that's right that's right well
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you know what i first of all thank you so much for having me as a guest from the time you mentioned this i was super excited
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about it for a couple of reasons you and i have known each other for a few years the context that we know each
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other in is very relevant and i'll let you do the talking on that but
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and then at number three is anybody says your name and i go oh amy one of my favorite people
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one of my favorite people i appreciate that i the feeling is mutual yeah well i guess you know
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for our viewers if anybody if we decide to you know put this out for our viewers i'm
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speaking with sean anthony today and uh we have a whole show lined up for you and we most likely will still do it but
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we decided that we were just gonna chat some real talk to you today because both
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of us are dealing with stuff in the sandwich generation and it's hard for sean and i to connect because we're
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chasing after each other because we equally love each other we want to talk to each other but our our families and
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our lives are so intertwined that um
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you know it's really it can be really difficult to uh to get a hold of people and so you know sean thank you for
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joining me today um i know that you're going through a lot maybe let's you know if you're up
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for being real with our folks here in our audience let's be real for a bit you know hey you know what do you got going
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on in your life as a caregiver i'm i'm only i'm only about being real
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i train well right and it's like you know here we're gonna pull back the curtain and just have a chat
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yeah well you know i'm first of all i would say that uh uh when you when you
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talk about how busy we are and uh uh with our careers
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with our kids and with our our elders that's making the the true sandwich parenting
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experience uh it's a blessing first and foremost
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it's a blessing my sister lives in toronto and so do my parents uh scarborough actually
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up until two or three years ago and maybe four or five actually now and i'll tell you how it started you
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know i work for tax wise you know i work with the disability community and time and time again i would see these couples
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come in or sometimes it would be one person and they would be near tears
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and they would say the same thing over and over and over again and that would be
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we did everything right we saved like we were supposed to save
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we had our house we had our kids they moved out and we knew we were going to have to downsize
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we knew that time was coming the driveway was getting more difficult the lawn was getting more different we knew
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well maybe next year or maybe next year maybe next year and then what would happen
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is one of the people would develop a condition and it would often and sadly be very
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quick it would not be a slow gradual thing where where you know well now
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maybe we need to think about you know mobility's impaired or this is impaired or that's impaired
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and all of a sudden they'd have to make these decisions right then and and right there
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and those decisions were often made in their emotional decisions and the company i work for they're about
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tax implications so we'd be sweeping that up afterwards
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because and by sweeping it up now i'll give you this one example i told my parents this
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and i don't ever want to say to anybody or my parents that i had pushed them to move to ottawa
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yeah i had pushed them to downsize because we had two young kids and we were paying for aftercare
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uh the aftercare we were getting i i wasn't a big fan of uh not just
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financially i just you know kids in school for seven or eight hours that day and then
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you leave them in for another hour and a half when they could be with people who love them more than anybody
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else right and uh i i i wasn't going to ask my parents
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to sell their house leave everything they've known for the last 30 years
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and come to to ottawa but i i would share with them these stories and the one story that i shared
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with them uh and anybody else will listen not to
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motivate them to do something i want but to make them understand to see that in
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fact this is a reality that that many canadians find themselves in
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there's a facility on the 417 just off of the 417 in kanata and as you
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know we we do these tax literacy seminars and this facility is not a
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necessarily an end of the road place uh but but
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if it's not it's one step away from there and most the people who go there are the exact scenario of of one of the
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many couples who came into our office somebody gets sick right now
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and they need a certain level of care that is beyond the hospital but it's not at the hospice
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um and you know there are some people who who leave that place in good health but but for the most part it's a
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long-term care facility to the point that the keypad on the way out
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says please enter current year so that gives you an idea of of the type
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of care they provide we would give seminars there to the sons and daughters and the husbands and wives
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of people who were there and we've done two or three and to describe the audience we'd have
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anywhere from seven people to 12 the word
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devastated comes to mind the term shell shocked comes to mind all these things have
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happened to this person they've had this continuous lifestyle with this other
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person for years and years and years and then boom it stops
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i remember the uh the executive director there lovely lovely person she was
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telling me that you know we try to do everything we try to give the best care we can and then on
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the way up before that person leaves we sit down we do some administrative stuff and she said you know i'm a social
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worker by trade so i'll sit down with this person and i'll say okay do you have everything you
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need you know your son your daughter are they around are they helping you or whatever and she said this one person
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the day before had said to her he said you've given me everything physically i
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need and you've given her everything physically she needs but i don't know what to do now because
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every day for the last 40 years i've been sleeping with that person
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and i'm supposed to go home now and and get into that bed and and do and she
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does the banking she does this she's like i'm not sure how to do those those things
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and i shared that story with my parents and i'll share that story with anybody else
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who will listen one of the seminars i did there at one point what i would do after the seminar and
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knowing the amount of engagement you have because these people are very distracted and one of the things we try to do
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there's i know you think you can't afford this and you probably you know are in financial straights or whatever
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but we can show you the tax implications that can help you or or whatever it is we had christine with us there most of
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the time and she would uh sit down one-on-one with most of the people there and just
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this one man we were talking to this had happened and he
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just went oh i'm gonna need this money so he went to his bank account and cashed a very large amount of rrsps
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and just so that this is what you do your wife is sick you go and you you need money you go get it
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right he didn't see like a long story short i think he had a a cra bill that year
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well over 25 000. right excuse me that's my that's my producer the dog we got a six-month-old
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puppy here who only likes to bark when i'm on the phone sure um that's right um
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but he had done what we hear so many people do
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they had made these emotional decisions
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at a time when they needed somebody to uh um to guide them through and
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whether it's you know even a friend who isn't as emotionally attached to
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that person to to help them through the the whole downsizing idea isn't
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limited to picking up your things and and going to another place that doesn't have stairs
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um so all of a sudden my parents moved here and they went from having a house with
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stairs and in a driveway uh and an elandicat to a condominium in this
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beautiful seniors community uh down by hunt club and the parkway
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it's just off of mccarthy it's called the landsdowne uh and and within it there's i think two
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condo buildings uh probably about 30 to 50 bungalows clearly made for seniors
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and uh one senior's residence home there and they found community there and they're
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very happy and they man they loved pre-pandemic
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they loved picking up the kids every day and they loved spoiling them with sugar
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uh which i'd have to deal with after they left um
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and then uh last january well last november but really we found out the diagnosis last january my
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dad got sick and my dad has cancer and he's going through chemo
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and there's great resources here in ottawa for that and everything is going well
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but when we had scheduled our podcast originally my dad usually has his chemo appointments in the
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afternoon but it turned out this was going to be yesterday i found out or the day before yesterday i guess that late at night i
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found out it was going to be in the morning and i thought to myself oh what am i
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going to do and then i thought this is the perfect place
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to have a podcast with amy who was talking to caregivers who are talking to seniors
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so i could show them and literally i had my laptop set up on my dashboard in
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front of i i sometimes go to a coffee shop that's that's not far from there but yesterday i decided to play music
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very loud which wouldn't have worked out but i said okay i'm gonna park my car beside it and and have my laptop set up
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so they could see the baby seat in the back and the vacancy beside me
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and uh we've been doing chemo uh i think this is his sixth round now
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uh exceptional bravery on my father's part
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uh i i was telling a friend of mine you know what's funny
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they they moved to ottawa about uh three or four years ago as i mentioned
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and friends that told me like hey how long has it been since you lived in the same city as them
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and i said boy it's been it's been 20 years almost and
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somebody said oh you know you're gonna have to get to know them again like i know you went back to toronto on a regular basis you're gonna have to get
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to know them again and i thought oh no i already know mom and dad you know it's
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your mom and dad but when you spend that much time with them you realize that it's not getting to know them again
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you're getting to know this version of them that's older
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they're not the same person they were when you say you're also getting to know them
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more so adult to adult right it's it's a very different
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like give and take right because you you know 20 years ago you were still an adult but we're different adults now 20
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years later right 100 right it's it's both things it's not
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just i i'm getting to know them the person i knew uh before i left in 2002 i think it was
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was a lot different from the sean anthony you see in front of you right now right and they they are a lot different
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too so there was unconsciously not not by strategy but
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there was this new relationship that three people kind of engaged in right
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uh and it it's been great you know um and going back to
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the blessing side of it it's a couple fold um when my dad was in toronto if he had a
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health issue i was talking to my sister about this the other night and she said i'm glad mom and dad are there
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and i said you you are and she said yes this way you're not phoning me nine times today bothering me
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uh how's dad doing today is i had the test go how'd this go how'd that go and she was joking of course
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uh but but the other side of it is i i've had this opportunity to to get to know them
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and the the new the the 50 year old sean got to know the 75 year old by the way this saturday
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is my dad's 75th birthday so happy birthday dad i know you're going to listen to this it'll be belated by that point but happy birthday um
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and when this started uh a couple things happened as well
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we're really covering a lot of stuff here amy uh i really
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my dad said to me he said you know there's there's people in the building who can give me a drive to chemo
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and i didn't know anything about chemo then uh what his reaction would be how how
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would he come out of the hospital sick right uh and i said that's good that's very kind
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to them and we might have to take advantage of that and we have some cousins here as well
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i said but if i'm free that's my job
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that's my job because there's uh there's
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only a few jobs [Music] that we're born to do
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and if we're fortunate enough to be mentors to children or parents or
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caregivers or aunts and uncles or whatever that that's that's one job i think we all have a job of being
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of being coaches to kids for sure but if we have the opportunity
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i think one of the other jobs we have is to be there for our parents in their senior years
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you know when things don't work so well right and uh i i look at my time here as you
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know i i really wanted to uh well i'll just give the audio i'll give the demonstration there was a car seat in
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that back corner right there and there was a hospital just down the block right over there
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um but when i think about our listeners and uh i'm gonna share another story with you
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in a second that really got me um when i think of our listeners they
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already know it they know it's a blessing before it's a before it's anything else and i
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from the time this started i i make a point of telling my kids
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i was busy helping poppy today because that's what you do
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and i didn't do it for any any sort of currency or any sort of
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capital uh not even not not even emotional capital it's just that's
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if you have the opportunity that's what you do and uh a couple boy oh boy
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a couple things happen in our family i i don't mind sharing this and i don't think my wife would mind sharing this either
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a few years back my wife's mom passed past very suddenly
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you know within diagnosed on a on a friday gone on a monday
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and when this started i said to susan and and the caregivers will understand this too
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if i'm the person taking time in my schedule to take my dad to an appointment
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it's not just me doing that my whole family's doing it that means my wife has to be with the kids
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on her own any plans she had to do something with the four of us well that's just
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going to be the three of them and that means their kids are going to be without their dad for an hour or two and you know which is
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is important but also more important for them to know this is what dads do
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yeah dads go take care of their and maybe selfishly the thing is by the way
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kid you're gonna be taking care of me one day don't forget it uh who knows you watch exactly what i'm doing and you
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do the same but it's exciting it's a ripple effect right like if you have to
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do something else not only does everybody else have to pick up whatever but i think it's also
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important for you know i have a four-year-old it's also important for them to understand
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why you're not there you know that's right you know then they then they start learning that i don't
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know if you know this sean but our audience knows us that my father-in-law is literally in process of moving in my
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house is a disaster right now and i'm all about
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planning pre-planning plan again plan this and everybody knows that and we did and then what happened to him
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happens to many of my clients where you put the plan in place
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the stress level alleviates a little bit because there's a plan in place on his end i mean ours as well but on his
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end because he was living he's living alone in near windsor you know dealing with everything
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and then all of a sudden health fades because you're constantly constantly
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constantly doing something stressful and then you let it go a little bit
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and then your health goes and so now we're in a recon mission you know coming up this weekend again
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this will be a bit delayed when people see this but coming up this weekend we're in a recon mission because we were
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ready in a couple of weeks to bring him now he's got to come now so if he doesn't get now we're afraid that things
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are going to get worse so we're literally driving to him this weekend and so yeah you know i see this
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happening and i'm always so scared for some of our clients who don't plan because i know the plan is going to get
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messed up but at least there's some kind of footing right there's a foundation a framework there
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that that you can rely on yeah right it's you know best laid plans right you
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know you can do at least there's something there that we can go back to and it's basically in fast forward is basically
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what it is the plan's still there the things are still happening yeah but his room wasn't ready and this bed's not
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here and yeah you know we haven't yeah somebody's working on our basement so all the stuff we had to move from there to the basement isn't is in my living
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room right the four-year-old's been of course home sick all week this week as well we're filming podcasts i'm working
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you know it's this is what our you know my life your life our viewers like this is what it is and we're all just trying
20:56
to get out of here alive right we're just trying to make the best and make sure
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that the people in our lives our children understand what we're doing our loved ones understand what we're doing so that
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they know they're cared for by us it was interesting i was talking to a friend of mine and i was talking about
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just being busy and i hate to say that and i got a buddy of mine who used to always say we're always busy like you
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you say you're busy you know you're not busy and at that point i didn't have kids
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i didn't have a partner and he said oh man i'm busy and he's like buddy you don't know
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but uh i think another friend of mine had said to me that uh it's an extraordinary time you're just busy
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and i said you know what it's not an extraordinary time
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this is life it's life this is the the experience of being a
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son of being a father of being a partner of being a neighbor right that this is what
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and you can make choi we we make choices too like there's part way through uh early in this i was boy at the first
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beginning of this we we were really well that needed a prescription and you know oh i gotta you know i'll go and get
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that for him because i don't want him to be without a pill the pill he needs and then i'm at the drugstore and
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i'm talking the pharmacist and he said hey you know we have a delivery service
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and i don't know let's do that right now right
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you know and uh uh there was ways that i started to find and my
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sister was involved with talking with my parents about this too of finding other ways to get this done
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and changing things they've done for decades right changing things they've done their whole lives to now ordering online and
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it still gets there right so you know it is the human experience i i
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we can call it extraordinary or we can call it what our uncles and aunts did a generation ago and our
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parents did a generation ago and you know depending upon where they were geographically in relation to their
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parents but the uh uh the interesting thing my wife had said
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when this started and i said you know i'm i gotta take my dad for chemo tomorrow
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whatever and could you take care of this and she said wow would i have loved the opportunity
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to have taken my mom to chemo right because her mom's cancer came on
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very very quick and it was very fatal very quickly and you know you don't want to think of
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taking somebody to chemo as a positive experience but if you're deprived those days
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right boy would you know you would jump at that chance now you know it did it's a it's an odd thing to
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think about but but you know she she would have jumped at that chance and it's one of those reminders
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um one of those reminders that you get every now and then when you're there going what's a full day
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and you you know you think back to that you go oh there's some perspective well there's always some perspective there's
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always you know others that people like look up to your life and then there's you look up to someone else's and
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someone has what you don't and you have what they don't and it's you know it's all relevant and
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what you said about busy is you know i think it's relevant to
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your own personal boundaries your own um you know
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bandwidth busy is you know relative to your own bandwidth really and you know what you're busy is might be different
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than my busy but it doesn't mean we're not busy and i also don't really like to say busy right
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because it is relevant so it's like depends on who it is you're talking to but there are days
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that you're like oh my goodness how do i even fit one more ounce of anything in right
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and those are the days too and i talk to a lot of caregivers you know i know that it's hard but i you
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need to understand that you have to build in time for yourself time to
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take care of yourself i recently got back from a trip and
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mike didn't come with me and we were planning this trip together and we decided all of a sudden that his
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dad was going to be moving in we just had this couple months ago and we had been talking about it but then all of a sudden just went fast forward
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and he's like i don't think it's good for me to go and he's like but you should
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and i said okay husband i will go um and my sister and i went and the reason i went
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is because my cup was spilling it was there was
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just no room left between everything that was going on and not
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having a break since before i was pregnant which is now four plus years
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that's too long and you know i'm not saying everybody needs to jump on a plane and go for a vacation but the thing is what i realized was when i got
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there i literally did nothing nothing i sat on a beach chair and did nothing i
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didn't read a book i didn't listen to a podcast i looked at people and you know me sean i don't stop easily
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normally in an all-inclusive trip i am bored to cheers you can ask my sister
26:32
she was shocked literally that's how burnt out i was and i said to mike this morning
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i don't know what i would have done had i not gone because this week i just got back last week this week
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my whole life changed right in the split of a decision it's like okay everything's in fast forward
26:51
my house is in shambles i'm still doing my stuff and that's you know a lot of people
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like i said you don't have to take a you know the vacation you have to do the same things
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but a lot of people aren't taking time to fit in in their busy themselves and it's such a
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epidemic for the people that we're dealing with whether it's yeah whether it's a spouse
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whether it's a adult caregiver whoever is the caregiver it doesn't
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matter the age it doesn't matter the responsibilities and i was just speaking with someone also
27:29
about folks with dementia as well and we have this thing you know in the
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retirement homes it's really difficult to get short respite
27:39
and that you know a week and under especially for someone who has high care
27:44
or is a wander risk from dementia or has you know high care with dementia you know wonder risk or not
27:51
and you know it's you know there's this thing in the industry that is you know we don't want to you know move someone
27:58
with dementia all the time because it really messes them up right you know it can be really fatal
28:04
and then i thought i was thinking about it yesterday because of a conversation i had and it's like but what about the caregiver who's caring for them
28:11
so when does that person get realized that yes things might
28:18
not go smoothly to do a respite or to do whatever to move them the person who has
28:24
dementia out of their environment to another environment that can care for
28:29
them it might not go smoothly but what's the other alternative because
28:36
that caregiver is about to burn out and they're begging for help and the other alternative is
28:42
honestly 24-hour cares through home care which is astronomically can be expensive
28:48
so so speaking of that you know it's it's two things came to mind um
28:54
the caregiver piece especially and and i've ex i've got a couple of friends who
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uh recently lost somebody uh in their lives and
29:06
after that they have spent a very large time i met one who's going
29:11
through it right now a very large amount of time doing the administrative
29:16
the the the closing the estate and and sometimes it's physical they're actually going and emptying houses
29:23
uh that were occupied for years and finding things from their childhood and whatever
29:29
busy we're talking about busy and i'm going to tell everybody our listeners about how when she says she's no good at stopping i'll i'll give you an example
29:35
of amy being no good at stopping um when they go and they go through closing
29:42
that estate up and physically getting rid of those boxes and giving whoever wants those things from from
29:49
that basement to whoever wants it and giving the rest to charity or whatever
29:55
it's like this very slow moving crane onto a building
30:02
imagine going in slow motion they're busy busy busy busy busy they're going they're going they're going
30:07
they're going and they're getting it done and they're preoccupied even after work oh my goodness i got to do this i
30:12
got to talk to lawyer i got to talk to the accountant i got to talk to all these people then they're done
30:19
and it sometimes takes years or or months or whatever but when they're done and i've heard
30:24
this time and again they have a couple days of of fatigue
30:31
that that manifests physically they they actually just need to sleep
30:37
and then the emotional gravity of what happened hits them
30:42
what they didn't deal with at the funeral because they were a bit distracted by by the logistics of even that trip you
30:49
know what they didn't deal with while they're putting all those things away emotionally
30:55
it catches up to them and that scenario is no different from
31:01
again the human experience you have uh we we had i know with our first one we
31:08
had a very premature baby and it was pretty traumatic and my wife got really sick
31:14
i would say that her and i emotionally dealt with that probably by the time he hit two
31:21
right it hits you then that wait we've just exhaled holy smokes that was a
31:26
crazy two years of no sleep and oh by the way we didn't realize that we've been in the hospital
31:33
for a long time and that kid was you know i i could i could hold him with with his head here and his feet there
31:40
and they were they were over the moon if he if he actually drank 10 milligrams of milk wow over them you know and and
31:47
you're dealing with with that it we we at work we help people with the
31:53
financial side but i'm often there looking and having experienced this so many
31:58
times i'm watching that crane in slow motion go and i'm trying to figure out where it is
32:05
and hoping that hm how do i put this i'm always hoping it hits them really
32:11
softly well and you're also i think again you and i are very similar i'm hoping as a professional because i watch
32:18
the same crane i'm hoping that as a professional i can do or say something that softens
32:24
that blow because the other thing that happens for me specifically but i've
32:29
definitely heard it from my other caregivers is that when you exhale and you take that breath
32:35
not only does the emotional get you most many i guess many people including
32:41
myself get physically sick i get i get a cold i get a flu
32:47
and i'm out and it's like i think that that's one of the reasons why i run on high because when i'm
32:54
running on high i tend to get sick less my stress levels way up here
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but when i relax it i get sick and then everybody's doing their thing
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like i'm the mom right and so like i take care of four animals a toddler a
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husband and then often when i get sick eva also gets sick so there's no down time or if
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i get sick then mike's also sick and there's never just me sick in the house it seems and so if i can run on high
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then i tend not to get sick as easily but that's also what i'm trying to change in my life because i need to
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i'm learning how to run on medium and try not to hit the highs because if
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i can run on medium everything else goes a little bit smoother yeah you're dead on and you know you think
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back to when we went to school and i remember going home for christmas
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after exams and you know honestly having a day of being
33:57
on my dad's recliner couch just i was beached there for a day
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and then i would get sick i'd almost always get sick and you could blame it
34:08
on oh well he took the greyhound bus and must have caught something there or he did this or he did that whatever
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i was stressed i was very it's a it's a run as fast as
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you can to a brick wall because you're just done and then oh we're done and then your body kind of goes
34:26
all right buddy you've been mistreating me for the last three weeks my turn
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and it makes you punish it but i i want to share with your audience uh an observation early observation about amy
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running she she's like a lawnmower engine where you can't fix the choke it's just always
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it's always all the time and we do a charity with with the good companions uh and monique the wonderful
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monique do little promise and and the wonderful nikki and nicole and the whole team there and it's back before the
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pandemic uh we used to have a physical fundraiser which was for me i had the most fun of
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the year because we would look around and this is the way it would always go by the way
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okay we're going to get these sponsors we're going to do this and that and whatever and it's again you're running
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to official finish line christmas which is busy for most companies so i would say yeah you know i'll try to
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get around that but probably kind of swamped at work and then amy would show up one day going yeah i sold half our tables
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and we got the sponsors don't worry about it it's good right she would she saved the day
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numerous numerous times especially since the pandemic which uh uh on a personal
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level there's not enough i can say about amy that this would not exist that this fundraiser would not exist and the
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fundraiser by the way what we do is we raise money to buy seniors who are isolated in the ottawa area a christmas
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present and i've i've helped and i brought my kids to deliver some of those presents
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and i've seen it's the only present they get the people who we get gifts for it's
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the only gift under their tree that christmas uh and so amy is
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you know it's she she contributes more than anybody else i i don't mind saying that her contributions uh but here and
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or there when we're having the fundraiser uh i'm often mp uh am seeing it and uh
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i'm very kind like i am now you know we're just having a conversation the microphone having fun there might be a
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drink in my hand there might be i'm going around kind of talking to people whatever an email can come up to me and
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go sean the music's too loud people can't hear it they can't hear each other talking and they're going that's the problem to have
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amy i guess we'll have to uh talk to somebody about that
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and she goes yeah we're gonna get on and i go no you know what yeah okay right and
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there's amy's urgency and i'm they're going yeah yeah that's that's a good point
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we'll do that right now and then i walk over and i go
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good can we turn the music down a second or something [Music]
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okay thanks and that's that's the that's the amy
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sean dynamic at the at the fundraiser that works works for us but when when
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she says she's running on high that also makes her a very effective
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person in the marketplace and i i know a company who at one point um
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she had told me that they weren't following up with with leads that they were providing not that company
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that that i had approached that she had told me and i went there's an effective entrepreneur
37:47
uh or caregiver even to her clients in that um
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she is pursuing their wellness beyond what she gets compensated for
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because that lead that she provided that that organization with was something you were not going to receive any
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any renew sorry renumeration for uh but maybe you would receive some
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emotional [Music] rememberation for i gotta work in that way we're gonna pause today and continue
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this conversation next week as not to overwhelm our viewers i hope that you've
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found value in what we've been talking today and that you can like and share with your networks a lot of caregivers
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just want to know that they're doing an all right job and that everybody else has very similar experiences and that
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there is help out there so from me to all of you i hope that you have a wonderful wednesday
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